Hey all!

It's been forever and a half since I've posted on these forums, but I simply HAD to pose this question to people who are truly educated.

How does everyone else feel about the latest run of episodes? Because I don't know how I feel about them. They've had their moments, but they don't feel quite the same to me. I'm not sure exactly what it is. The writing team is well aware that the show can get preachy at times...but that's what I love about the show! They take something that pisses them off (usually), and they completely satirize the situation and then make a very valid point on the subject.

But lately...it seems like they're less preachy. I don't even know how to describe it properly. Because they HAVE been making their points, but they just don't seem to be done the same way. I thought Tonsil Trouble had a weak ending, Britney's New Look was actually a bit uncomfortable to watch, and Major Boobage probably went over most people's heads, especially if they've never actually SEEN Heavy Metal. Now I DID like Canada On Strike, but I think they could have done SO much more with the whole WGA topic. And Eek, a Penis! didn't really satirize anything, but that's fine. They can't ALL be that way.

So am I completely crazy? Can anyone at least see where I'm coming from? Does anyone AGREE? Your thoughts? Stop asking questions? Okay...sorry.

i hate when they're preachy, because that's exactly what they criticize everyone else for. trey parker bitching about environmentalists or sexual harassment lawsuits is no different than susan sarandon bitching about politics. my favorite episodes are the ones that don't have a message, or much of one at any rate.

I see where you're coming from. They don't need to be "preachy" to make a point. When you look at it, my rough guess would be that about half the episodes throughout the years have made a point if not more. And I don't think it's just "bitching" about the subjects. I think it's something that needs to be done, and that South Park has been good at, and it's not the same as any other political bitching or joking. It actually opens more doors to the subject. I've always claimed that South Park is the smartest show on TV at the moment, and this season hasn't exactly lived up to that, I agree.

Most of my favorite episodes are the ones that make a point, or the "smart ones", but I also enjoy the simple shit that's just purely funny when the writing is still clever, solid and unpredictable. I love it when they make the most ridiculous shit seem believable and make you get caught up in it (Guitar Queer-o probably being the most recent example of that).

I'm not sure if it's just the lack of topical episodes, maybe not, but I agree, I'm not crazy about this season so far.


Tonsil Trouble was promising in the beginning but didn't really keep it up, ended up being a bit lame.

Britney's New Look was overall a bit disturbing and dark. I kinda liked it still.

I haven't seen Heavy Metal. I liked Cartman's storyline. The trips started to annoy me after a while because it felt like they lasted forever, but that episode kinda grew on me after seeing it a couple of times.

Canada on Strike was decent, but I felt they could have done more with it.

In Eek, a Penis! I liked Mr. Garrison's storyline but Cartman's storyline just bored me to death, after getting over the amusement of his Hispanic look.

-- edit ---

Now THIS is what I'm talking about!!! I believed it immediately.

I've loved every episode this season. I'm a little drunk right now so I'm not gonna elaborate, but I think this has been one of their best seasons. I never really felt preached to at any point. Maybe I'll elaborate tomorrow or something when I got more energy.

i still don't get how it's different.

1. celebrity has political viewpoint
2. celebrity expresses political viewpoint

most people don't write their own material, so they express their viewpoints through interviews. making them, in team america parlance, fags. trey and matt happen to write their own material, so they interject their viewpoints into it. sometimes subtly, sometimes not so much. sometimes funny, sometimes not. sometimes well thought out, sometimes with obvious factual errors. but it's still "celebrity pushing his political views." the two episodes that come to mind right away are "sexual harassment panda" and "manbearpig." now, i love sexual harassment panda... right up until the end, when it gets totally preachy. manbearpig was just retarded. but they're both transparent political pieces, which makes me do this , whether i happen to agree or not. having an obvious agenda just makes it stop being entertaining and start being annoying.

everybody has a 1st amendment right to promote their political views. but if you're going to criticize celebrities for promoting their political views, and then do it yourself, that makes you a hypocrite. i obviously like mssrs. parker and stone or i wouldn't be here, but i think they do better when they stick to other subjects. like canada.

Often the political or topical episodes don't preach one view point, though, and say their straight opinion about it. Often there's several view points and the whole topic is just ridiculed in general.

By the way, I totally missed what was political about Manbearpig and I though that episode sucked. I mean, not just that I didn't get the "point" but it just wasn't very funny and didn't work if you don't know what the fuck Al Gore is about. I hate it when they are topical in the way that only Americans get it. The Day Before the Day After Tomorrow succeded in that well anyway, though.

I'm saying that so far, Over-Logging was the first great show of the season for me.

If the episode's continue to be like Over-Logging, then I'll be overall happy with the season, I think. It felt back to form. The over-exaggeration of the situation is what makes most of their episodes so brilliant. And any time you can take The Grapes of Wrath and jacking off and blend them together so seamlessly, I would praise you.

I like them all so far ....its free ..cant complain ...

You are sooo easy to please.

That's what I think too! How can most of you just take anything and think it's all amazing. I know you could argument that you/ we are fans of the show, and that's why... I'm too, but the uber fantastic episodes that come up every now and then have kinda set my expectations too high, I guess, and make the average ones seem... well, average.

maybe cause im stoned all the time...I always get baked befor watching a new sp the first time...

maybe the 2nd half of this season will slap you all in the face some MORE laughs then the 1st half did...

its a dam cartoon lol what u want?

In my opinion, even the episodes that aren't 'the best' are better than anything else on tv these days. The show is genius, hysterical, random, and Eric Cartman is one of the funniest characters to grace the tv screen.

There are a few episodes that rub me the wrong way every now and again, but I'm still of the opinion that the show has not lost a step and I constantly crave new South Park.

It really is sad that the same can't be said for 'The Simpsons,' although the movie was good. And Family Guy is for idiots, although I do watch it occasionally. Yes, I just called myself an eejit.

I think so too. Even the worst South Park episodes are still better than anything else on TV. I don't even bother to watch any of the shows that are being compared to South Park. Still, I'm just comparing south park episodes to other south park episodes, and not the stuff on TV in general, because if you think of it that way, I agree, I'm amazed by every single episode.

Ok... I didn't read all of that, because I am far too stoned.

However... my sister and I were talking the other day about how the episodes this season seem a little less preachy... which I have no problem with. I enjoy all South Park, from fart jokes to political satire. I do enjoy some episodes more than others, just like anyone else. So far... I like Tonsil Trouble, Over Logging, and Major Boobage more than the other ones this season... but I can still watch everyone of them. Major Boobage was hilarious. The sandbox fight has got to be the funniest moment this season. Either that or Randy being covered with "ectoplasym" from a "ghost".

Yo, yo, yo! Coo, coo, cool!

the_jer is back! Hey Jeremy! I will respond .. beyond the somewhat OTT but sincere welcome when I have me act together ie, that it's not after 1am where I am. I just checked in to see what condition my condition is in and saw this - cool thread dude.

I'll be back ...!

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EDIT:
Now that it's the cold light of day, I've had me 8 hours kip, and I've read the thread...I don't have anything very new to add.

I hate when anything is too preachy including SP. SP can be and has been very preachy indeed all throughout the seasons it's been on air.

MnT very much enjoy the fact that they have a big chunk of TV broadcast space to express their thoughts on whatever issues they see fit to feature in eps.

MnT do have an agenda (quite a right-wing one too), for their own opinions and specific beliefs that they push through SP. It can be hard to enjoy any SP ep that's driven by whatever belief/agenda they choose to inject into, or dictate, an ep.

They've said often in interviews that they are genuinely trying to tell stories and entertain so when they discuss Al Gore, global warming, celebs being arseholes - or whatever the issue may be - they are trying to build an entertaining story and funny tv show to illustrate their point, not just shove the point in yer face. Sometimes they fail - it can be very gauche and too pointed.

I cannot abide it when celebs take up causes, whatever the cause is; they are using the issue to bring attention for themselves.

I'm sure the celeb believes they are highlighting the cause properly, etc, etc but the primary goal is them promoting him or herself. I have never heard any celeb speak intelligently, articulately or even fully accurately on any issue. That is a huge problem - many people are willing to believe what a celeb says on an particular issue above, eg, an expert in that area.

When MnT pick an issue for an ep, they at least research the subject. They get their own opinion across on that issue but they don't wholly misinform. They express reasonable and well formed arguments from the stand point they decide to take.

If you disagree with their POV - fine. And it's fine by them as well. I disagree with them but I've sometimes looked for further info on a subject based on something in a ep.

I think their explanation of what stem cells actually are is one of the simplest, well expressed I've heard or read.

'Major Boobage' to me, so far is the best ep. So much fun and great ideas. I've never seen 'Heavy Metal' and have no desire to but that ep did not go over my head.

I've yet to see 'Eek a Penis' and 'Over Logging' so my opinion of this season's best ep could change.

SP is a fairly unique programme - there is so little satire in any part of the media. Irony, satire with comedy is being pushed out of entertainment programming.

Personally, I blame the vacuous emptiness of so called 'reality' tv that thrives on and encourages on-camera conflict, aggression and sometimes physical violence to 'entertain' people. So fucking sad and wrong. It's killing imaginative creativity in TV and dulling and dumbing TV audiences.

Well said, Kitten

Like I said, Over-Logging, to me, was great. It was a prime example of the show's satire. It wasn't even really a topical satire. I don't want to misinform people that I only enjoy when they discuss an issue. But at the end of the episode, you can tell the point they were trying to make. The internet has become so much of a necessity in life, that if it disappeared, nobody would know what the fuck to do.

Some of their funniest satires are ones that don't really hit on a major topic or issue. I don't know how everyone else feels about it, because I haven't been on here in a while, but Lice Capades was hilarious, because how many fucking times have you seen that story done in some way or another?

It just felt like the first few episodes were lacking in a poignant "I've learned something today" moment. Obviously it's too soon to tell how the rest of the season will turn out.

South Park wasn't the only show that I thought felt different upon its return. I don't watch a lot of TV, but the handful of shows I do watch all seemed to be out of sync with the rest of the shows (that first episode of The Office, for example). Which could very well be directly related to the writers' strike and everyone being out of practice for a period of time. I don't know. Over-Logging redeemed a lot of points for me though, so I certainly haven't lost faith in the show. I just wanted to see how everyone else felt. And I'm glad to see that I'm not entirely alone on the subject.

Seems like I'm pretty much on the same level with the_jer on this. I agreed what he said in his first post, and I also found the thing that I feel has been missing throughout the season so far, in Over-Logging. THAT's the kind of South Park I like. The first episode of the season that's been more than average, in my opinon.

I suppose 'Over Logging 'is more of what I expect from SP too (post on my opinion in specific ep thread -Over-Logging Thread).

I prefer when their point or message is made or told through the story; not by awkwardly stating the bleeding obvious with the self-conscious 'Y'know, I learned something today...' line.

They only have one more ep of this part of the run before they and the crew get MONTHS of paid vacation time off.

On a separate - note but I'm not sure where else to put this - but in last week's as usual weak production blog at SPS whatever worshipful loyal PA mentioned that South Park Digital Studios is being fitted out in office space next door to SPS. Anyone apply for a job??? http://www.southparkstudios.com/fans/blog/

I trace the change to "Cartoon Wars" where they acknowledged the criticism that the show was getting too preachy while making a serious point about censorship. As if to underscore the change, the next episodes were "A Million Little Fibers" and "ManBearPig", neither of which were political. "Go God Go" continued the change by pulling its punches almost entirely on the subject of God (though focusing on side issues). Since then the focus has been much more heavily on telling a good story as opposed to making a point, although this changed somewhat with "Canada on Strike" and "Over Logging" which marked a return to the serious message. So maybe we've now come full circle and there will be more serious messages again. Personally I prefer just being amazed by how as pure entertainment, the show keeps getting better.

A perfect example of the type of episodes I like to see is The Return of Chef. Brilliantly done. They made their point abundantly clear without directly saying "Scientology brainwashed Isaac Hayes!" Everyone who saw that episode knew what the Super Adventure Club REALLY was. The episode was very story-driven and yet remained an excellent satire (forgive me for using the word so much) and made its point.

I think what really draws me in on certain episodes is the metaphor used to drive both the story and point.

I'm surprised they haven't released a "South Park Sports" dvd.

They've done baseball, football, basketball, hockey, "Olympics," probably something else...

That's the dvd right there. Kind of off-topic, so, this run's episodes are the shit, dude.

What happened with the aliens and Cartman's ass, again? It's been a long stoned while.

I liked them, some more than others. What I liked about this run is the three-plot stories they have going - two of them related and the third not.

In "Eek, a Penis" they had Mrs. Garrison becoming Mr. Garrison again after she/he chases the mouse with his new penis growing from it, the penis-mouse itself running for some odd reason and finally coming to Mrs. Garrison after scaring women everywhere, and Cartman turning Cartmanez to teach some inner-city teens how to cheat their way to the top.

In "Super Fun Time" they have Cartman and Butters ditching the class and doing their own thing; Stan, Wendy, Kyle, and Jimmy trying to help the police nab the bad guys; and the rest of the class being hostages while the bod guys try to find a way out of Pioneer Village.

Of course, who wouldn't want to live out Kenny's fantasy? Come to think of it, that's a three-plot ep too... the crackdown on the cats, Cartman giving the cats sanctuary, and the cheesing (in this case, all three are related).

The one thing I will admit I love about the recent seasons of South Park is just how cinematic they make each episode. That's what made Cartoon Wars and Imaginationland so great. If it weren't for all the legal clearances involved, I think that Imagionationland could've been the second South Park movie. Some of you will argue that it is, since they have the DVD out uncensored, but with a little bit of extra care, that would've been an amazing big-screen movie.

I think every season has its good shows and its duds. I think they hit a low with Manbearpig. Or I just didn't get it--that could be it too. Don't criticize other celebs have political views when you're guilty of the same thing yourself. You have to be careful with parodies sometimes--and I was kind of surprised this season to see Grapes of Wrath, complete with Henry Fonda just kind of standing there the whole time. I wonder how many heads that went completely over? But the same season that gave you Manbearpig also gave you Smug Alert and Tssst, which I though were both great.

I didn't like the Britney episode, but then, I don't like her and all of the media circus around her. Yes--they're not gonna stop until she kills herself--that's pretty obvious and incredibly sad--at least to me. I understand where people might think it's funny, but I found it difficult to watch because it just kind of got on the bandwagon with all of the other media attention.

I rather liked seeing Alan Rickman in the final episode, even if I've never seen any of the Die Hard movies and don't know what he did in them--other than he was a bad guy. But since when are 9 year old 4th graders told to hold hands? Buddy system, yes. Holding hands stops in 1st grade. But I guess it wouldn't be funny if Butters wasn't holding Cartman's hand and refusing to let go because "teacher said"

I STILL say Manbearpig rules for life. That episode was comedic genius. It was so genius it was shitting gold. But I tend to follow the boys storyline more than the celeb cameo, mostly. But even in that ep, I thought the portrayal of Al was hilarious.


You're totally missing out. Part 1 and 3 are magical. Part 2 sucked. I never saw 4.

In 4, he told everybody he was gonna, "Kick their ass!"
Then he pretty much would. He even said it to a chick!

I did love Cartman shitting gold. I just didn't get the whole Al Gore thing. But that's cool. I loved the Great Expectations episode that everyone else hated.

Did you know that Great Expectations ending was changed by Dickens? The original ending was VERY sad. Pip meets up with Estella years later and she's living a very, very unhappy life:
It was four years more, before I saw herself. I had heard of her as leading a most unhappy life, and as being separated from her husband who had used her with great cruelty, and who had become quite renowned as a compound of pride, brutality, and meanness.

I had heard of the death of her husband (from an accident consequent on ill-treating a horse), and of her being married again to a Shropshire doctor, who, against his interest, had once very manfully interposed, on an occasion when he was in professional attendance on Mr. Drummle, and had witnessed some outrageous treatment of her. I had heard that the Shropshire doctor was not rich, and that they lived on her own personal fortune.

I was in England again — in London, and walking along Piccadilly with little Pip — when a servant came running after me to ask would I step back to a lady in a carriage who wished to speak to me. It was a little pony carriage, which the lady was driving; and the lady and I looked sadly enough on one another.

"I am greatly changed, I know; but I thought you would like to shake hands with Estella, too, Pip. Lift up that pretty child and let me kiss it!" (She supposed the child, I think, to be my child.)

I was very glad afterwards to have had the interview; for, in her face and in her voice, and in her touch, she gave me the assurance, that suffering had been stronger than Miss Havisham's teaching, and had given her a heart to understand what my heart used to be. — based on the proof slip reproduced by Edgar Rosenberg in the W. W. Norton (1999) edition of Great Expectations, p. 492.

Dickens was talked into changing it to a happy ending with Pip and Estella living happily ever after. Either way, the end of the novel kind of fades away, so I can understand why South Park gave it a more exciting ending.